Innsmouth Book club Episode 124 - Mike T. Lyddon Part One
Innsmouth Book club Episode 124 hosted by Rob Poyton with guest Mike T. Lyddon (April 29th, 2026) - Part One
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Contents of Part One:
1)Introduction 2)Lovecraft film adaptations 3)Low Budget Filmmaking 4)Hiring Theater Actors for Movies 5)The Night Gallery TV Series 6)Discovering Lovecraft 7)Weird Tales 8)Lovecraft’s Letters 9)Robert E. Howard 10)Fiend Without A Face 11)Poe and Lovecraft
Rob Poyton0:17
Greetings travelers and welcome to episode 124 of the Innsmouth Book Club. As you can see, we’ve brought you straight to the faded splendour of the Gilman House Hotel today because we have an esteemed guest waiting for us upstairs. I’m one of your guides, Rob Poyton. In fact, today I’m your only guide, as my colleague Tim Mendees is stuck out at sea at the moment. Yeah, Tim booked a pleasure cruise at Captain Quint’s boat tours this morning, and word has come in that they’re actually stuck out on Devil’s Reef. I’m sure everything will be fine. The boat will be back at some point. I would imagine it will be a couple of day trippers lighter because you know that’s the price you pay for visiting Devil’s Reef. We call it Dagon’s Toll. Anyway, before we go upstairs to meet today’s guest, just a reminder of the Innsmouth Literary Festival 2026 being held Saturday, September the 19th in Oddly Moist Bedford. Now, of course, we’ve announced our guests of honour, author Stephen Jones and artist Les Edwards. We’re also pleased to announce some of our other guests, including Marco Visconti. Marco is a practitioner and expert on the Western esoteric tradition. He’s an author of many books, but he has just recently released Black Stars in Dim Carcosa, Necronomican Field Notes. We’re also delighted to welcome from Across the Pond our old friend Heather Miller. Lovecraftian scholar, and of course, author of Ripples from Carcosa, Haunted Landscapes and True Detectives. And as regular listeners will know, Heather actually visited us here in Innsmouth just uh a few episodes ago. Also from Across the Pond, but Canada this time, we’re delighted to be welcoming Stephen E. Wall. Stephen is the host of the Delapore Media Podcast, an excellent podcast that we’ve mentioned a few times here on the show. And Stephen is going to be one of the guests on our panel on suburban horror. So we’re looking forward to that. Now, of course, if you’re a patron of the show, you get free entry to the ILF. Just let us know you’re coming and we’ll put you on the list. But you can also order tickets through Eventbrite now, and I’ll put that link up in today’s show notes. Alright, let’s crack on. Time to tread those worm-eaten boards up to room 428 to meet today’s guest. And here he is, it’s a special Innsmouth welcome to Mike Lyddon.
Mike T Lyddon3:06
Greetings, Rob.
Rob Poyton3:08
How’s it going? All right. Very well. Is this your uh your first visit to Innsmouth?
Mike T Lyddon3:14
Rob, don’t you know? I’ve always been here in Innsmouth. (evil laugh) I had to do it.
Rob Poyton3:24
Marvelous. You had to do it. I I like to think also there’s a little bit of Innsmouth in everyone as well, isn’t it?
Mike T Lyddon3:30
Indeed. Indeed. Uh that’s something that I hope we get to is talking about some some of the Lovecraft adaptations to film. Because that’s a quite a a mixed bag of greatness and sadness.
Rob Poyton3:50
Almost tragedy in some cases.
Mike T Lyddon3:53
Oh yes, certainly.
Rob Poyton3:54
Well, you’re the ideal person to talk about this because you, of course, you are uh very well known as being a filmmaker, also an author, an artist, and I believe special effects as well. Special effects makeup.
Mike T Lyddon4:08
Yes, I I like dabbling in the special effects. It it’s it’s one of those things with being a very low-budget filmmaker, you end up wearing many hats in production. And so making these films, all of which are you know the feature films I’ve made, have all been under$30,000. So $30,000 is like nothing, right? Everybody that’s part of the crew typically has carries two or three jobs, you know. So if you have a seven-man crew, you you’ve got you’ve 20 jobs that need to be done. And so everybody’s doing two or three jobs. And even sometimes the cast. We get the cast, and somebody’s not acting in a scene, they’re holding the you know, the boom mic (laughs)
Rob Poyton5:04
Holding the boom mic or something. Wow. Sure. I think what’s remarkable about that, having uh it’s something we’ll we’ll get into, no doubt, having worked with artists and singers in particular, is getting a singer to do anything other than sing is quite a remarkable feat, generally, you know.
Mike T Lyddon5:20
Yes, yeah, and that’s a little it’s a little different, I think, when you’re on set or out on location doing a film. Many actors are eager, because you know, it it’s you’re there, it’s like, okay, look, somebody’s gotta hold that light, or we can’t shoot the shot. And that it they they will come in. They will typically, I you know, I have rarely run into any prima donna circumstances with actors. The way that I that I hire actors is is two fold. For instance, in New Orleans. We made a few films in New Orleans. You have actors in New Orleans, but you also have a lot of theater actors as well. This is great because you can go to the various theaters. Some of those actors are very keen to be in films. They just haven’t crossed over and they have, you know, it’s very difficult, for instance, to suddenly be on an episode of NCIS or whatever, you know, like the the big studio productions.
Rob Poyton6:37
Yeah.
Mike T Lyddon6:38
But in low budget films, yes, you can approach theater actors and say, look, we’re doing this film. And if you’re interested, you know, here’s the script. We do a read-through, see if it works. And it that’s the key, you know. It’s something that I don’t know if people realize or not. I see so many very low-budget films where you can tell that the producer, you know, or director is using their friends, and their friends cannot act. You’ve seen this, I’m sure. You don’t need to. It’s unnecessary. You know, you can you can find people that are that can actually act, that are willing to do it. They may not have film experience. That’s really not the the issue, you know. If they’re if they have theatrical experience and they’re good, you can bring them into the film realm. It is different, they’re not standing there projecting on a stage, so there’s a there is a bit of learning curve, let’s say, a little bit of a learning curve onset with the film, but you end up getting a very good performance, you know, the that that you’re looking for for that character. It’s one of those things that you anywhere you are, I think almost in any city, there’s gonna be a theater group. So that is my absolute advice to anybody that’s that’s making very low budget films, if you can’t afford the actors, you know, and that’s often the case. Sometimes you run into screen actors guild issues, that’s a whole other deal. But uh at least you can approach the local theater troops and see if you can pull some actors that way.
Rob Poyton8:52
Yeah, it’s an interesting source for film actors.
Mike T Lyddon8:55
Oh, yes and another thing with me too is that when you’re making a feature film, it’s a minimum of 15 days. It could be a 20-day shoot, you know, uh unless you’re unless you’re insane and you’re trying to shoot it over three days, like over a weekend, which which has happened before, not with me, but I’ve I’ve heard of these things. But when you’re shooting over a 15 or 20-day period, that’s a long time. It’s a lot in it, and that 15 to 20 days actually translates at least into a month, maybe six weeks, two months, because you’re shooting in blocks, right? Sure. You need to keep those actors. Yeah, because if suddenly an actor drops out two weeks into the production, you’re just uh it’s it’s bad news. So you pay them. Yeah, that’s the whole thing, folks. If you’re making a film, plan on paying your cast and crew. I have done it for every production I’ve made, and I will continue to do that because that’s how you keep your cast and crew.
Rob Poyton10:05
Yeah, well, that there’s so many parallels with music. I mean, when I left school, I got involved in music and was sort of professional, semi-professional for a while, and one thing I found when I got back into it was this willingness of people to work for nothing in the aim of getting exposure. And my good lady wife always says, Yeah, but exposure kills people. You right, yeah. Why would you not recompense someone for their skill and their talent and everything else? Sure, yeah.
Mike T Lyddon10:36
The same thing applies for me, even if I’m making a short film. It’s the same because they are there’s a lot, it’s you know, yeah, making a film is kind of can be a brutal thing. You can end up working 12 to 14 hour days, and it it kind of becomes this odyssey, right? Where on at the 12th hour, it’s like two o’clock in the morning or something, people are just it it’s struggling, right? And uh the knowing that they’re going to get paid something out of this is just huge uh for that suffering. Uh and and I that’s for me, it’s just it’s a it is a thing where if it’s if it’s you know a$30,000 film, ten thousand dollars of that is going to pay the cast and crew. That’s how I the way I look at it because it’s uh that’s where it’s at. If you don’t have a cast and crew, you have no movie. Yeah. Well, I think we’ll get to this if we get to Lovecraft adaptations, a really good example of this with Rod Serling and the Night Gallery. I don’t know if you’re aware of the Night Gallery. There was a 1970s TV show that unfortunately did not last very long. But uh they did some Lovecraft adaptations and uh some other really, really cool adaptations like Algernon Blackwood and so forth. But there was just no budget for special effects. They had to rely on the actors, the dialogue. If you watch an episode of Night Gallery, you know exactly what I’m talking about. 90% of it is just is dialogue. It’s actors, you know, like really typically very good actors that they would get for these episodes. Very little, if any, special effects because they had no budget for it, you know, and and and I believe it was Paramount that was just so stingy. And and Serling even talked about it. He was like, yeah, you know, they love the movie. There was a movie made, right? And uh really good film. It was popular, it’s highly rated, critically praised the whole thing. And they were like, hey, we’re gonna make a TV series, the Night Gallery. But we’re not gonna give you the money uh that you require for any special effects or anything other than getting these actors. That is really it. Uh, and he he was understandably frustrated at the idea of hey, you know, if you love this the movie so much, why are you giving me the show and just cutting me off with this just really minuscule budget per episode?
Rob Poyton13:41
Yeah.
Mike T Lyddon13:41
And uh I can see his frustration, you know. So that the series only lasted, I believe it was two seasons.
Rob Poyton13:48
Sadly, not uncommon story, isn’t it, when you start dealing with corporations and creativity. Yes, yeah.
Mike T Lyddon13:56
You’re absolutely right. The same thing happened with the night stalker, culture at the night stalker. Yeah, huge movies, right? The Made for TV movie, the original film about the vampire, was the highest viewed TV movie in history at the time. It was hugely popular. They jumped on it and they were like, Wow, this thing, let’s make this into a series. Once again, they were like, Yeah, but we’re not gonna give you a budget for it. And it lasted one season.
Rob Poyton14:29
Yeah, for something that obviously specifically needs a budget for a certain type of special effect. You know, you you’re not doing a sit-in-room drama, are you? No at some point, you need a creature of some sort or you need something going on.
Mike T Lyddon14:42
Oh, yeah, there were some doozies there, something like in a rubber mask. Oh my god. I mean, it is like you just the dialogue, the writing is was exceptional, right? And then he goes to confront the creature or whatever it is, and it’s just like, oh my god, it’s just the nature of it. And as you say, you’re absolutely right. It’s like they they see something, they see money, and they’re like, hey, let’s ex let’s do that again. And this is why sequels and sequels upon sequels, you know.
Rob Poyton15:16
Oh, I know, it’s endless, isn’t it? How many Spider-Man origins now?
Mike T Lyddon15:22
You know, yeah, and you know what’s incredible about that in particular is that you know, uh Sam Raimi makes the original Spider-Man movies, right? Makes the first three.
Rob Poyton15:33
Yeah, yeah.
Mike T Lyddon15:34
For some reason, eight years later, the studio decides, hey, you know, we need to re do a reboot because that one’s just too old. It happened eight years ago.
Rob Poyton15:49
I know, too old. I’m watching Nosferatu is a hundred years old, and I think it’s great, you know.
Mike T Lyddon15:54
Yes. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. You know, I it it’s there is a strange thing there too, and I think there’s a it’s something that I saw years ago. I would like to uh talk to a kid or see kids react, like you go into a blockbuster video store or your your local video store or whatever. And a kid would be like, Yeah, I’m not gonna watch that. It’s in black and white. You know, it’s not in color. And that’s it, right? Isn’t that the the whole deal? It’s like you either your brain either functions on the prospect that, yes, you know, there were a lot of great movies made in the 1920s and 30s, in particular, the science fiction, horror, and fantasy, a huge golden age of those of the genres of of science fiction, horror, and fantasy. I mean, just amazing stuff. And uh a lot of people just won’t bother with it because it’s in black and white.
Rob Poyton17:04
Oh, yeah.
Rob Poyton17:05
Can we go to your uh origin story? What what was your first encounter with horror in general and in particular with Lovecraft? What drew you in to Lovecraft’s cosmic horror?
Mike T Lyddon17:18
Yeah, you know, that is kind of strange with Lovecraft, it came a little bit later. For instance, when I was, let’s say, between the the years of 10 and 16. Those are those are huge years when you’re getting into science fiction and fantasy. I think you would agree, especially that time. I was uh a huge, I loved H. G. Wells, Jules Verne, of course, the classics, right? Some of those things you’re not gonna understand at the age of 10. like the full ramifications. H. G Wells was he was working on various levels with his books, and I think that’s one of the great things about him. And you you appreciate that much later in life. You know, those are uh like his political satire and some of those those uh stories, the science fiction stories, uh, it’s just fantastic. You know, The Time Machine is one of those great political satires that uh it’s very interesting. I think H.G. Wells is I still consider him to be one of the great science fiction writers, like in pure science fiction, you know, uh his concepts. From the island of Dr. Morrow, Lore of the Worlds, uh you know, uh Food of the Gods, uh the Time Machine, all of these were like, these were like key elements that are completely used today constantly, over and over again. It’s amazing how relevant Wells is. So getting back to you know that age, like H.T. Wells, I was reading Jules Verne. Um I loved Edgar Ice Burroughs. You know, especially John Carter of Mars. Not so much Tarzan, but John Carter of Mars just kind of really got did something for me. And I I loved the art. Frank Frazetta, of course, did a lot of those covers for the books, and I was like, wow, this guy’s great. And naturally at that time, I was also reading magazines like Creepy and Eerie. And the that early, the early creepy and airie stuff uh from the 70s, and 80s, all it did start changing in the 80s. But right in the 70s, you still had Frazetta doing covers and a lot of other great artists doing uh work for uh Creepy and Eerie magazine. So I loved that. I was really into that. But then at some point, I would say like 15, 16 years old, I started getting into uh modern science fiction or speculative fiction. So suddenly I flipped into like uh reading stuff like Harlan Ellison, Philip K. Dick, uh Philip Jose Farmer was another uh, you know, and I was really into that. Very much into that. Uh and it was what really wasn’t until, believe it or not, the 80s. I don’t, I I think it was, wasn’t it early 80s? The first reanimator film came out.
Rob Poyton20:48
Yes, yeah, that yeah, it was like about around that kind of time.
Mike T Lyddon20:52
Right. And I went to see it, you know, and I I thought, my god, this is hilarious. And it’s just fantastic, and all these insane things, and and Jeffrey Combs is just West, Herbert West, his mannerisms and everything. I was just like, wow, this this is just great. Then I started reading, really reading the Lovecraft in earnest. So it was like at that period, that was the film that made me go back and and start reading the real Lovecraft stuff, right? Uh, and uh that just totally changed me. That was that was one of those things I at that point, I was like, wow, this is like really great horror, and it’s beyond horror. It is to me, I call it science fiction horror, it’s not supernatural. Uh totally. Yeah, he Lovecraft wrote very few supernatural tales, and for a good reason. I think he just thought it was kind of a bunch of guff.
Rob Poyton21:56
Really? No, he absolutely was he was a a total. Materialist, right?
Mike T Lyddon22:01
Exactly. Yeah.
Rob Poyton22:02
Yes.
Mike T Lyddon22:03
And uh so that was the thing that I loved. Science fiction horror. After that, I started getting into like trying to find old issues of Weird Tales magazine. Ah, yeah. And I just that was it. I have several uh issues of matter of fact. Let me let me this is one that you may get a big kick out of. 1934, my good friend. Check this out with that Brundage cover. Oh, and look at the writers here. Edmund Hamilton, Clark Ashton Smith, David Keller, Paul Ernst, QB Cave, who was just one of the greats in Weird Tales at the time, and Hazel Held.
Rob Poyton22:54
Ah, right, right, who Lovecraft uh worked with. Is it Horror from the Museum?
Mike T Lyddon23:00
Yeah, exactly. Lovecraft. This this was, you know, he was doing a lot of revision work for these people like Hazel Heald. She would come up with the concept, but they couldn’t write it, right? They couldn’t really get the whole thing done. So Lovecraft would come in and revise for them, you know. And uh this one happens to be, and it’s just such a great story. I love the story. Winged Death, and it’s got a really cool illustration. I love it.
Rob Poyton23:35
It’s beautiful in it. But there’s there’s that black and white again, right? You know, so yeah, they’ve got the colour covers because they’ve got a retract you on the newsstands, and of course, Margaret Brundage. Uh well, this is why Robert E. Howard had so many half-naked women in his stories, right? He knew it knew he’d get the cover slot.
Mike T Lyddon23:55
Of course, of course, it you know, that was another thing, Robert E. Howard and his relationship with Lovecraft via letters. It’s insane. There are apparently two approximately 500-page volumes on just the letters between Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard, and they never met.
Rob Poyton24:15
They never met. No, and the same with Smith as well. We work in the Strange Shadows podcast. We’ve got a book called uh Dawnwood Spire Lonely Hill. That’s the letters between Smith and Lovecraft. And that again is two volumes of I mean densely packed. You know, and um some of Lovecraft’s letters are longer than his stories. I mean, they’re they’re 12, 15, 20 pages, uh, and the Florida stuff, particularly, we’ll get onto, you know, some some really great stuff there.
Mike T Lyddon24:44
Oh, yes.
Rob Poyton24:45
And they provide uh an amazing insight into the mind of a writer and the creative process and all sorts of things.
Rob Poyton24:52
Yes.
Rob Poyton24:53
That I think for its time was probably quite unusual. I don’t know that we have anything similar for Wells or any other writer, really.
Mike T Lyddon25:02
I don’t think so. I really don’t think so. And you know, it’s an interesting thing. I did you ever see the film called The Whole Wide World?
Rob Poyton25:09
Oh, yes, yeah.
Mike T Lyddon25:10
But Robert E. Howard, right? Yeah, I liked it a lot, that it was you know, it’s like you try to condense a life into a 90-minute movie, and it that’s that’s what you get. Yeah, but uh the fact that and they could I my complaint with that film is that yes, he does mention Lovecraft, that he’s been conversing, you know, they’ve been exchanging letters at one point in the film, and that’s it. Like they never get beyond that, and they could have had another scene, and that’s what I was hoping that would happen is that you know, Robert E. Howard would be, I don’t know, writing a letter back to Lovecraft arguing about something in his life, which he did. He shared all the terrible things, you know, the his how would you say it? You know, his his own battles within his mind that were raging. And he shared those with Lovecraft. And I think it was back and forth with that, and that’s a fascinating aspect of their relationship. Oh, yeah, yeah. And that’s something I think that they could have, they could have just added a scene that that uh made that more instead of well, yes, I’ve been the writing of letters back to the.
Rob Poyton26:32
I got a postcard from this guy in New England kind of thing, yeah. Because their their letters across the board were were very detailed, and it was a lot more than, hey, how you doing, you know. Oh god. All the various themes of their works and and observations. Uh well, Lovecraft was famously very critical of uh virtually every other writer, with with a few exceptions, you know, Howard Smith and one or two others. He didn’t mince words, old HP.
Mike T Lyddon26:57
That’s that is true. No, he didn’t. And it’s kind of funny that he did, I mean, he of course he greatly admired uh Robert E. Howard uh and his writing. Uh and you would think that’s interesting because it’s kind of like, well, it’s this whole supernatural, you know, barbarian world of that whole type of thing. But I don’t see how you couldn’t, because it is it’s writing that is when you read a Conan story, for example, or even a Robert E. Howard horror story, of which he did write, you know, several, anyways. And the ones I’ve read are very effective. Uh it’s just the way that his style of writing, the what he his process for writing, and that is very well portrayed in the film, the whole wide world, where he’s sitting there at the typewriter and he’s just yelling out. You know, he’s just insane and tense on the typewriter, and everything that’s coming into his mind, he’s just you know, into it. He’s acting out in his mind, and it’s going on to paper. Uh, but but he’s speaking it, you know, as he’s typing it, uh, and and acting it. And that’s intense. That makes for intense writing, you know. And in Conan, it’s like you you read Conan’s stories, and it is it’s intense and gripping in that sword and sorcery kind of way. Not very complicated, you know, in in my opinion. It’s just it’s what it is, it’s sword and sorcery stuff, right? You know, but it is incredibly effective. And uh I it just when you think about that period of time where these guys are like exchanging letters, all of these things are going on, especially, I would say, more importantly, from about 1930 to up until the time of Lovecraft’s death. That period, that window of time is just insane. Everything’s going on. You’ve got you know, another writer who wrote a few stories for Weird Tales. She was one of the only Weird Tales writers that ever got a story adapted into a feature-length film, and uh that was uh The Thought Monster, Amelia Reynolds Long.
Rob Poyton29:36
Oh, right, right.
Mike T Lyddon29:37
Yes, she wrote The Thought Monster. It was published, I believe, 1930 in Weird Tales, and in 1958, it became the feature-length film Fiend Without a Face.
Rob Poyton29:51
Ah, right.
Mike T Lyddon29:52
I remember that one. I love Fiend Without a Face. I’ve got it on Crite. There’s a Criterion edition of Fiend Without a Face, and it’s just fantastic sci-fi horror. What I call, you know, once again, that science fiction horror thing. And there’s a Lovecraftian angle, and you know she was influenced by Lovecraft. There is no doubt about it. When you when you read the story and then watch the adaptation, it’s creatures, uh, you know, this scientist that brings these creatures into our physical dimension through the sheer will uh of thought, right? That’s that’s what’s going on. He develops this technique with this a machine, which he gradually builds up strength, and these creatures materialize, but they’re invisible at first, and that’s the terror of the entire thing. You you can’t see them, and of course you can hear them, and they sound horrifying, and then you’re dead because they suck the brain and spinal column out of your I never knew that was from a wheel t weird tell story.
Rob Poyton31:07
I’ve seen that movie and enjoyed it. I never realized. Oh, that’s that’s excellent, that’s great.
Mike T Lyddon31:12
The thought monster, yeah. And if you look on YouTube, uh there is at least one audio version of it, very good audio version, The Thought Monster by um Edward French. Okay. Edward French. He does the uh the the and he’s done some other great Lovecraft uh audio as well. I personally, my favorites are Wayne June, and uh there’s another guy. Uh he’s similar to Wayne June. He’s got that voice, you know, where it’s just so good. Just spot on for Lovecraft, right? You just dah, right in there uh with it. But uh yeah, so that’s the thing with you know, at that at that period of time, just getting back to it, I start really started getting into Lovecraft heavily in the 80s. And it was it had a lot to do with Stuart Gordon’s movies, right? You know, that I gotta say, even for their, you know, you watch Reanimator, it’s like well, okay, he just took this 10-page story and you know, or whatever it was, and just made it into a feature film and made it kind of into a horror comedy. You know, let let’s let’s be.
Rob Poyton32:34
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. But having said that, something we often say is Lovecraft, there’s a lot more humor in Lovecraft than people give him credit for, I think.
Mike T Lyddon32:43
There is.
Rob Poyton32:44
And I I think that’s something that comes across in the letters, particularly between Lovecraft and Smith, is they’re they’re ribbing each other a lot, yeah. You know, and inventing these stories about each other and all the rest of it. It’s very playful.
Mike T Lyddon32:57
Yeah, you’re absolutely right. There is a a kind of twisted dark humor, and I just as a matter of fact, I that was another thing. Like, for instance, okay, when I was a child in the 70s, I did watch those Night Gallery episodes and the Lovecraft episodes, Pikman’s Model, right? Pikman’s model is a key example of a really good Lovecraft adaptation for a no budget. And once again, they didn’t have the group the budget really for the special effects, but in this particular case, the creatures in Pikman’s model, they did pretty well. They actually they they look very good. And one of the best things about that are the paintings. The Night Gallery was all all about the paintings, right? It was Rod Serling in the gallery introducing the stories, which are all a series of paintings. And in Pikmin’s model, there are like at least a dozen paintings, right? Because they go to the artist’s loft, and you see the paintings all around and so forth, and these just hideous creatures and doing various things. They couldn’t get as gruesome, of course, as he does in the story, which is pretty graphic and it’s it’s great. I just love that story a lot. Um, and uh, but that being said, I think that they did an excellent job. And once again, it’s Night Gallery. You’ve got uh I think it’s Bradford Dillman, the actor who plays Pickman, the artist, and he’s really good. He’s such a good actor. And so, you know, they did land those really good uh TV and film actors to play key roles, you know, uh in in these Night Gallery episodes, which saved the episodes, in my opinion, and very good writers to adapt the material. Because in that particular one in Pikmin’s model, in the original story, it’s you know, it’s there’s an art club, as you may recall. He’s the in this the guy that’s talking about Pikmin is a member of this art club, and he’s fascinated with Pikman’s art, you know, and like how how could he possibly get that realistic with those the creatures and so forth and the paintings? And in the Night Gallery episode, they it’s an art school, and Pikmin is teaching like classes of of students, and like one of the classes is all women, right? And they’re they’re these he’s teaching them painting, yeah. And one of the women just becomes obsessed with Pikmin. That’s that’s what happens. But Pikmin’s like, look, uh, you don’t want to be any, you know, you don’t want to have any part of what I’m dishing out.
Rob Poyton36:09
He’s already got a ghoulfriend, you know.
Mike T Lyddon36:11
Right. Exactly. Exactly. And that’s the interesting thing about the story, because in the story, of course, they it’s kind of a weird, they they flipped it for a little bit of a romantic interest, you know, with the woman, and she’s obsessed with Pikmin. But it still works really well because she she finds out where he lives in the north end, as you recall. This is like Boston area, right? It’s the north end, it’s the creepy old decrepit north. She finds the loft, she goes up there and she’s in the loft looking at all the paintings, and she’s like, Oh my god, this guy. And he walks in, of course, and he’s like, uh, how dare you, you know, uh follow me back, or you know, uh, why are you hounding me like this? And at that point, of course, the they hear the creatures uh scurrying about uh, you know, in the hallways and stuff, and he goes out and he fires the shots. This is exactly how it is in the story.
Rob Poyton37:12
Yeah.
Mike T Lyddon37:13
And he comes back in and uh she flees, she gets out, um, and uh comes back later with her father, and they’re collecting the paintings, but the one painting gets lost. It’s like in this little it’s like a crate type of thing, but it it they it gets shoved in there. That’s how that’s found years later, and why they’re talking about this painting, right? In the in the story, it’s a photo, as you may recall, and that is the most disturbing thing that they for some reason or another, they didn’t do. They did not do the thing where he’s like, Yeah, so I put it in my pocket, and then a few days later he pulls it out, and he’s like, Oh my god, it’s the creature. This isn’t a a photo of a painting, it’s a photo of the creature in real life, you know. Taken from the from life, yeah, yeah, taken from life. Absolutely fantastic. What a ghoulish story. And here’s something I don’t know if any of you in your your talks about Lovecraft, uh, and maybe it, you know, as far as like the story, Pikmin’s model goes, has has anybody brought uh the idea up that these creatures in Pikmin’s model, these creatures, these subterranean creatures, right, that have been around for hundreds of years, centuries, definitely. They also point this out uh specifically in the Night Gallery episode. He’s talking, he’s like, Yes, you know, these tunnels, these vast underground tunnels which lead to the marshes and lead to the ocean. And he’s like he’s theorizing that these creatures came from the ocean originally. They got into the tunnels, they’re like these subterranean creatures, and they evolved.
Rob Poyton39:14
Ah, that’s an interesting take.
Mike T Lyddon39:16
Yeah, what did they what did they come in at? Were were they deep ones?
Rob Poyton39:21
Were they deep ones originally? Oh, that’s very interesting. Because this is the thing with Lovecraft’s ghouls, they’re very different from you know, the origin was probably the Arabic ghoul, which is a demon, basically. It’s not a a dog-faced man type creature. It’s something so where did Lovecraft get this from? So the the origin and how people become ghouls is always up for discussion.
Mike T Lyddon39:47
Yes, and it’s in the story, he does say that. He says, uh, yeah, he he he he mentions it in the story in the night gallery episode. They really specifically, the guy is like saying, Yeah, look, they can’t, I think they came in from the sea. Uh, you know, and uh I just immediately thought, wait a second, is he you know, what is coming in from the sea if it’s Lovecrafty? And and you know the guy that wrote the the the adaptation uh knows Lovecraft, right? He’s he’s one of the horror writers for Night Gallery, I forget which one, but uh it may have been Serling himself that wrote that adaptation.
Rob Poyton40:29
Richard Mitherson did a lot of stuff, didn’t he?
Mike T Lyddon40:31
And Atherson did a lot. Uh there were a few other key writers, you know, and uh and key directors, no doubt about that. There were just certain people that could handle the material, especially the hardcore material and and stuff like Pikmin’s model. They did Cool Air, was another Lovecraft adaptation for Night Gallery. The Doll by Algernon Blackwood. Oh boy, is that one of the creepiest?
Rob Poyton41:00
I’ve not seen that one. I’ve not seen that one.
Mike T Lyddon41:02
Well, here’s the thing. Uh I don’t know if they’re on YouTube. I can tell you that there’s several episodes, including the doll and Pickman’s model, on Rumble. Rumble is just like YouTube. Okay. If you go on Rumble and you search for night gallery episodes, it should they should come up. You can get it on DVD. You can get all of the episodes, of course, on DVD. Uh but as far as online, it’s possible that they had it’s, you know, maybe they’re on Amazon Prime. I don’t know.
Rob Poyton41:39
I I think I’ve seen some of them on YouTube, and I think there is maybe one series or or something on Amazon. I’ve got a feeling. You mentioned people like the QB Cave there, you know, very overlooked. So many of these writers uh are overlooked. And all you need do if you wanted to do another uh Twilight Zone or Night Gallery, like you say, get those old editions, take two or three stories out of each uh issue. You’ve got enough there for six seasons without even trying, you know.
Mike T Lyddon42:09
Could you imagine, Rob? Could you imagine uh Weird Tales as an anthology series?
Rob Poyton42:17
There you go. That’s that’s the name of it. Netflix Weird Tales. There you go.
Mike T Lyddon42:21
Oh my god, yeah. Only if there was somebody like Stuart Gordon, uh God rest his soul. He’s left this mortal coil. But uh, somebody like him, it would be, it would have to be somebody that understands uh that era, the horror, the science fiction, the the original uh stories and so forth, uh, and understands it enough to go, all right, well, you’re not just gonna throw a bunch of jump scares into the story and think that you can uh uh scare people, you know, and call it horror. You you do, you know, you have to adapt the story basically like the story uh it was written. Uh obviously, with certain you’re you’re unless you’ve got the money for a period piece, you’re gonna have to, you know, it’s gonna be modern times, etc.
Rob Poyton43:20
Oh yeah, again, yeah, but but but that’s but that’s like the the the trappings, isn’t it? You know, it you can change that superficial aspect, but if you don’t hit that that cosmic vibe, man, then it’s what yeah, what’s the point?
Mike T Lyddon43:35
That’s the thing.
Rob Poyton43:36
I was thinking really the only one who got mainstream success was Block, really, wasn’t it? Block and and even he got he got screwed over on Psycho.
Mike T Lyddon43:45
He did, he did, yeah. I mean, and they all all of these guys, it’s a sad story, but look, you know, I mean, you know it, I know it, by this time, as of today. Lovecraft has been gone for what almost 90 years, right?
Rob Poyton44:06
Yeah, yeah.
Mike T Lyddon44:07
He died broke. He was completely, he was like the classic broke writer, right? A great writer who had not been realized. And Poe was the same way. Poe was getting notoriety, but he was still broke. He’s a matter of fact, he died penniless in the actual. Well, he was basically, at the time they found him, he was literally penniless and he was dressed in rags, like somebody else’s clothes, in lying in the snow. They took him to the hospital. He died a few days later. And it was, you know, there are various the stories, uh theories behind what happened. It’s possible that uh according to documents, he was on his way, he was going to go somewhere else on a business trip. He had his business clothes on, which was one suit. That was it. That was his business attire. And he was waiting for the train. He’s gonna take a train. And uh apparently uh it uh the only thing I can think of, I mean, he liked to drink and uh he liked to gamble. Yeah, yeah. My theory, and I think a lot of people share this theory, is that yeah, he got into a card game, he lost his butt, and uh he lost it to the point where he gave up his own suit. The guy gave him his shabby clothes, he wandered out drunk in the snow, it’s like snowing. He just fell, he like passed out, fell over into the snow and was exposed for whatever hours and taken to the hospital and died. It’s it’s just an amazing, it’s just an incredible tragedy, you know. Like, and when you think about it, but that’s probably about what happened, or he was simply robbed. But why would he end up in somebody else’s clothes?
Rob Poyton46:09
That but then the clothes thing, yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, it it it it certainly makes sense. And I mean, uh well, I guess like most people in those days, health was not that common, right? It wasn’t, you know, yeah, uh, with all the stuff that was going around, which of course forms the the part of a lot of his stories as well.
Mike T Lyddon46:27
It’s true, yeah. That was the 1840s, right? The late 1840s when he died. And uh so these people they died tragic, poor deaths. I mean, they were they basically, as you said, Poe was really penniless. Lovecraft was certainly penniless. To date, their works, their their stories have generated billions of dollars in revenue, which just makes you shudder. Uh it’s I mean, it’s great because they’ve they’re so huge and they will remain big, right? And like H. G Wells, I think, another one that will remain in the consciousness of especially science fiction and horror in the in this realm. Clark Ashton Smith, I think, is is up there too. Yeah. Uh, and and other writers, you know, they’re they’re they’re up there. Those two guys, though, Poe and and Lovecraft, like share this kind of dynamic, right? They’re they’re they’re separated by many decades, but they have this, there’s a connection. There is a powerful connection. And it’s it’s a it’s just uh to me, it’s like I think about that and I’m like, my God, this is like the suffering of artists, like the the the writers, without being, you know, without trying to sound like I’m an artist, so I must suffer for my work. No, they just did.
Rob Poyton48:03
Yeah, I mean, it it has become a bit of a cliche in a sense, but you think of Van Gogh and and similar artists as well, sure, it it’s not an uncommon theme, and we can speculate about people’s states of mind and mental health issues and everything else. But at the end of the day, if you do something, I think particularly if it’s new and innovative, which both of those were one and Van Gogh as well, you know, a lot of the old painters survived because they took commissions from the crown prince of Bavaria or whatever, right? Portrait of the royal family. Uh if that’s not your bag and you’re doing your own thing, then life’s gonna be tough, isn’t it?
Mike T Lyddon48:41
Yeah, it it is true, and and that was it was simply the way it was with both of them. And they weren’t living the lives of the suffering artist, you know what I’m saying? They were the real deal, you know. Poe was an alcoholic, he was a gambler. Lovecraft had nothing to do with that. He was a teetotaler, as far as I as far as we know. No, no, that’s that’s pretty pretty much exactly. So that’s even more tragic. I mean, it’s just like he was so poor that he could not diagnose a cancer that was growing, you know, in him until it was too late. Yeah, these are the types of things that just I think about that are you know they’re real, they’re real. They, you know, it’s not you know, like something that you can you can uh hype, uh hype. Because it’s already at the extent of like it’s tragedy. There is there’s no place you can go. Could you imagine a and I don’t know why it has not happened, somebody should have done it. As a matter of fact, I I think years of go uh years ago, uh Del Toro should have done it. A film based upon the life of Lovecraft.
END PART ONE